Tuttavia la sindrome di Amok e’ stata definita da Yap (1951) come: “esplosione acuta di violenza incontenibile associata con attacchi omicidi, preceduta da un periodo di ritiro meditabondo e concludentesi con esaurimento ed amnesia. La furia appare piuttosto priva di direzione e la persona che corre amok puo’ abbattere animali e uomini, indiscriminatamente, nel suo percorso”.
Amok è una parola malese. Nella lingua malese moderna (Salim & Kamus, 1990), tra i derivati della parola amuk (pronuncia “a” come “answer” e “muk” come “mook”) ritroviamo mengamuk (attaccare a casaccio per intensa rabbia e uccidere indiscriminatamente, combattendo come in battaglia o compiendo una strage) e pengamuk (individuo che corre amok).
La definizione di amok “attaccare furiosamente in battaglia” (Westermeyer, 1973) e’ non solo inaccurata nel contesto malese moderno, ma anche obsoleta, sebbene possa essere ancora riconosciuta come una delle prime definizioni.
L’arcipelago malese, meglio conosciuto storicamente come Indie Orientali o nell’accezione malese-indonesiana Nusantara, comprende le moderne: Malesia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, Tailandia meridionale e Filippine ed e’ popolato da malesi e razze-connesse come malesiani, giavanesi, buginesi, atjesi, balinesi e tausug. Tutte queste razze parlano melese o lingue connesse al malese.
Yule & Burnell (1965) postularono come il termine amok dovesse essere largamente utilizzato nell’arcipelago malese prima dell’arrivo dei portoghesi, i cui primi testi menzionarono amouchi o amuco a Giava nel 1516, derivanti verosimilmente dalla parola malese amuk.
Gimlette identifico’ quindi 4 determinanti dell’ amok in Malesia, basandosi soltanto sull’ intervista clinica (Gimlette, 1901):
Nel 1893, otto anni prima, tre di questi fenomeni vennero descritti da Ellis (1893), un sovrintendente medico del governo del Manicomio a Singapore.
M: thank you Greg for helping me with this thesis regarding amok. |
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M: grazie Greg per l’aiuto con questa tesi riguardo l’amok. |
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G: it’s ok, Marta |
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G: di niente, Marta. |
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M: Thank you because I mean, I’ve been collecting many papers but they’re mainly from a westernized perspective, so…it’s interesting to have an opinion from a person who saw clinical cases over there
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M: grazie perche’, voglio dire, ho raccolto molti articoli ma questi posseggono principalmente una prospettiva occidentale, cosi’…e’ interessante avere il punto di vista da una persona che ha visto casi clinici la’ sul posto. |
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G: I’ll be glad to do it |
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G: saro’ felice di farlo |
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M: So…I wanted to ask you if you remember some of the clinical cases of amok that you saw in Philippines |
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M: quindi…volevo chiederti se ti ricordavi alcuni dei casi clinici di amok che hai visto nelle Filippine. |
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G: I saw once when I was a small boy and my memory of it is very patchy but I phoned my brother about 2 weeks ago about that you told me that you’re doing a research in amok and he told me some interesting informations about you know people running amok in the Philippines…yes…basically he said to me people who run amok they usually have very poor background and they usually have problems in their family and it seems you know as far as I remember and as far as my brother is concerned he has never seen a female case you know it is always a man who actually runs amok…yes…there seems to be no mental history or psychiatric history in the patients suffering from amok, it usually comes from so big family and from a poor background |
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G: ne ho visto uno quando ero un ragazzino e la mia memoria a riguardo e’ molto frammentata, ma ho telefonato a mio fratello circa 2 settimane fa poiche’ tu mi avevi detto che stavi facendo una ricerca sull’ amok ed egli mi ha fornito alcune interessanti informazioni circa le persone che corrono amok nelle Filippine…si’…praticamente mi disse che le persone che corrono amok hanno generalmente un background molto povero e hanno generalmente problemi di famiglia e sembra, per quanto io mi ricordi e per quanto mio fratello ne sa, egli non ha mai visto un caso femminile, come sai e’ sempre un uomo che effettivamente corre amok…si’…non vi sembra essere anamnesi psichiatrica positiva nei pazienti che soffrono amok, generalmente provengono da famiglie molto estese e da un ambiente socio-culturale povero. |
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M: And actually do you remember anything from the case you saw when you were a young boy? |
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M: e ti ricordi in raelta’ qualcosa del caso che hai visto quando eri un ragazzino? |
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G: I saw one case once and this particular man has big family, and I think he had about 8 kids and this particular man didn’t have a regular job, I think as far as I remember he was working as a farmer, usually a very quiet person, a very sensitive person. On the particular day with no apparent warning whatsoever he just run amok and I think he was holding a machete I think it was some kind of sugar cane cutter and he just started running amok and unfortunately he was able to cut the hand of one passers-by |
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G: Ho visto un caso una volta, e questa persona aveva una famiglia estesa, e penso avesse 8 figli e un lavoro non regolare, se ricordo bene lavorava come contadino – solitamente una persona molto riservata, una persona molto sensibile. Nel giorno del fatto, senza alcun apparente preavviso di alcun tipo, egli semplicemente corse amok e penso tenesse in mano un machete. Penso un tipo di strumento che taglia la canna da zucchero ed egli incomincio’ a correre amok e purtroppo riusci’ a tagliare la mano ad un passante. |
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M: Do you remember what happened to this man? |
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M: Ti ricordi cos’e’ accaduto a quest’uomo? |
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G: You know in the Philippines during the old age they were not really that very knowledgeable about mental illness…as far as this man is concerned he was deserving a little problem I think he was never taken to an hospital because there was no hospital in the town where I came from and I don’t think a psychiatrist was…I don’t think there was a psychiatrist available then so I think he saw as far as I remember some sort of “quack doctor” I think |
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G: Sai nelle Filippine a quell’epoca non sapevano molto circa le malattie mentali…per quanto riguarda quell’uomo egli si stava meritando un piccolo problema penso non sia mai stato ammesso in ospedale perche’ non esistevano ospedali nel mio paese d’origine, e non penso uno psichiatra era… non penso ci fosse uno psichiatra disponibile allora, se ricordo bene penso abbia visto una specie di “medico empirico”. |
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M: …sorry some sort of? |
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M: …scusa una specie di? |
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G: Quack doctor…you know when you call it…you know the doctor everybody call usually practice some sort of witchcraft or something...you know they usually have herbalist doctors |
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G: ‘Quack doctor’… sai come lo chiami… lo sai, il dottore che tutti chiamano per fare qualche tipo di stregoneria o qualcosa… sai, normalmente hanno dei dottori erboristi. |
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M: herbalist doctors… |
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M: dottori erboristi? |
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G: yes, they usually… |
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M: but…are they traditional doctors? |
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M: ma… sono dottori tradizionali? |
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G: They are traditional doctors…mmh…you know during the old age there were probably 1 or 2 such doctors where I came from and poor people usually go to them because they had no money and besides I think they had more high regards for such doctors rather than you know proper medically trained doctors. |
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G: Sono medici tradizionali… mmh… sai, a quei tempi c’erano probabilmente uno o due di quei dottori da dove provengo io, e la gente povera usava recarsi da loro perche’ non avevano denaro e tra l’altro penso avessero piu’ stima per quei medici che, sai… per i medici professionali qualificati. |
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M: So, they are not really medical doctors… |
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M: Allora non sono veramente medici professionali… |
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G: No, they had no training whatsoever medically a part from you know some experience on something or just probably a way of just earning money really. So this particular case of amok I don’t think you know they recognized or actually they recognized it was actually disease or something, as far as they were concerned it was just having a lot of problems and you know he couldn’t take anymore, he was too sensitive and he just run amok! In fact the word amok where I came from is very popular and anyone would know the word which particularly means that somebody running amok is somebody who just (…)going with a machete in his hand |
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M: So, basically, is amok considered like a mental illness in the Malay Archipelago? |
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M: Allora l’amok e’ considerato come una malattia mentale nell’arcipelago malese? |
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G: I don’t know about the Malay Archipelago but where I come from, Philippines, amok is …not fairly common...it’s, you know, it’s almost a rarity but it is fairly popular you know when somebody behaves in such a way, they always associate it with amok but they don’t consider it as somebody who is naturally mentally ill…all the amok I’ve known I think a few cases of amok although I’ve only witnessed one when I was a small boy. All the cases I’ve known there have been no mental history in the family as far as amok is concerned |
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G: Non saprei riguardo l’Arcipelago malese, ma da dove provengo io, le Filippine, amok non e’… molto comune… e’, sai, quasi una rarita’ ma e’ abbastanza comune associare sempre all’amok qualcuno che reagisce in quel modo, ma non lo considerano come un malato mentale… di tutti i casi di amok di cui ho sentito, penso pochi casi di amok comunque, io ho assistito solamente ad un caso, da bambino. In nessuno dei casi che ho conosciuto c’e’ stata una familiarita’ per malattie mentali. |
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M: There isn’t also any past psychiatric history in these persons…I mean apart from not having a family history for psychiatric illness… |
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M: Non c’e’ neanche alcun passato psichiatrico in queste persone… voglio dire, a parte l’ assenza di malattie psichiatriche nelle loro famiglie… |
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G: Working in a psychiatric hospital now as a nurse probably made me much aware of how backward people are where I come from about psychiatric illnesses…in the first place there was no psychiatric hospital there, where I come from, and obviously there was no psychiatric doctor and of course people are not always diagnosed as having psychiatric problems so I can only conclude from my own point of view that nobody I’ve known except the one I’ve witnessed myself when I was a small boy would be give me reliable informations that such and such person was suffering from mental illness because they’ve never been labelled as mentally ill so and they always lived normally as people and of course when one member of the family went….running amok it would be considered like as if it was a one-off thing and probably just reacting to life stresses. |
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G: Ora, lavorando in un ospedale psichiatrico da infermiere, mi ha probabilmente fatto capire come sono indietro nel mio paese riguardo la conoscenza di malattie psichiatriche… in primo luogo non c’era un ospedale psichiatrico laggiu’, da dove vengo io, e ovviamente non c’era un medico psichiatra, e naturalmente, le persone non venivano diagnosticate con problemi psichiatrici. Io, dal mio punto di vista, posso solo concludere che nessuna persona da me conosciuta, eccetto quella che ho assistito da bambino, potrebbe darmi informazioni precise sui sofferenti di malattie mentali perche’ non sarebbero mai stati segnalati come malati mentali, e hanno sempre vissuto come persone normali, e certamente quando un membro della famiglia corre amok, veniva considerato come un caso isolato e probabilmente solo un modo di reagire agli stress della vita. |
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M: Do you know Greg if the situation in Philippines has changed now…nowdays...I mean if now there are psychiatric hospitals and psychiatrists considering amok in a different way or is it still as it was when you were living there? |
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M: Puoi dirmi, Greg, se la situazione nelle Filippine e’ cambiata oggigiorno… voglio dire, se oggi esistono ospedali psichiatrici, con psichiatri che considerano l’amok in un modo diverso, o e’ rimasto tutto uguale a com’era quando tu vivevi li’? |
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G: I think people perception of amok hardly changed over the years as far as I’m concerned since I left there has been, you know, only one psychiatric hospital that was I think built about 50 miles from where I came from and obviously our people perception of amok remains virtually the same as when I left my town or village about 33 years ago |
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G: Io penso che la percezione della gente riguardo l’amok non sia quasi per nulla cambiata col passare degli anni. Dacche’ sono andato via io, e’ stato costruito un solo ospedale psichiatrico, e penso a 50 miglia (75 km) dal mio paese e ovviamente la percezione della nostra gente riguardo l’amok rimane praticamente uguale a quella che c’era quando io sono partito dal mio villaggio 33 anni fa. |
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M: What do you think it is I mean the perception that people in Philippines have of amok exactly…I mean what do you think it is? |
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M: E cosa pensi sia la percezione delle persone nelle Filippine riguardo l’amok esattamente… voglio dire, tu cosa pensi che sia? |
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G: My own deduction is that I think the general perception as well is that amok is just a natural reaction to life’s problems or change of life events or situations in the family…I don’t think…I was talking to my brother recently about 2 weeks ago and he was trying to give me you know a more sort of practical information about it: whether it is related to some sort of disease, whether it is physical or mental, the only thing he would give me is that…the one he saw recently came from a poor family, he had no job, almost always the person in question is undereducated, poor educational background and there’s usually a very strong religious or superstitious belief in the family |
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G: La mia deduzione e’ che la popolazione guarda l’amok come una reazione naturale ai problemi di vita o eventi o situazioni di famiglia… non penso… parlavo con mio fratello due settimane fa e lui ha cercato di fornirmi piu’ informazioni pratiche: se potesse essere in correlazione ad alcun tipo di malattia, se fosse fisico o mentale, l’unica cosa che mi ha detto e’… l’individuo che ha visto lui recentemente veniva da una famiglia povera, non lavorava, quasi sempre si tratta di persone senza educazione, che tendono ad avere fortissime credenze religiose o superstiziose nella loro famiglia. |
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M: What kind of religious beliefs are held in the family of people running amok? |
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M: Che tipo di credenze religiose sono detenute nelle famiglie della gente che corre amok?
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G: Mhh…you know the Philippines was Christianized…it was first Christianized in the 16th century and before that people were basically of…they worshipped …sort of things you know, things like they would worship the sun and things like that, they really didn’t have any sort of western religious background but these people who I know suffered from amok they came from catholic families which is the major religion in the Philippines…now 90% of the philippinos are catholic and it isn’t (…) Catholicism the way I think we know it in the West. Catholicism in the Philippines is usually heavily associated with a lot of superstitious believes and that’s what I think you know complicates the situation or perception as far as amok is concerned |
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G: Mmh… sai, le Filippine furono cristianizzate… fu cristianizzata per la prima volta nel XVI secolo e prima la gente, praticamente… venerava… cose come il sole, e cose di quel genere, non avevano alcun tipo di religione occidentale, ma queste persone che conosco che soffrivano di amok venivano da famiglie cattoliche che e’ la religione principale nelle Filippine… adesso 90% dei filippini sono cattolici e non e’ (…) cattolicesimo nel modo che conosciamo noi in occidente. Il cattolicesimo nelle Filippine e’ fortemente associato con tanti elementi di superstizione, e questo, sai, complica la situazione o percezione per quanto riguarda l’amok. |
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M: In these families where there’s one person running amok how are the religious believes compared to the average family in Philippines…I mean…what is different in those families regarding to religion, if anything is different? |
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M: Come possono essere paragonate le credenze religiose in queste famiglie dove capita che una persona corra amok rispetto alle normali famiglie delle Filippine… voglio dire… cos’e’ diverso in quelle famiglie riguardo la religione, se c’e’ una differenza? |
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G: What I can recollect you know these people usually have no difference in the way they practice their religion, usually they go to church every Sunday and I think the only difference I can deduce from it is that these people usually believe in quack doctors or faith-healers and these faith-healers, there are quite a few of them in the Philippines, you know it’s difficult to comprehend how people from catholic background they can reconcile both their believes in catholic religion and their believes in faith-healing. Most probably I think play a role in how this running amok is…..in some part of the Philippines |
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G: Per quanto mi ricordo, non c’e’ differenza tra questa gente nel modo di praticare la religione, normalmente vanno in chiesa ogni Domenica, e penso che l’unica differenza che io posso dedurre e’ che questa gente crede nei ‘guaritori’, ce ne sono tanti nelle Filippine, sai, e’ difficile capire come gente con un background cattolico possa conciliare le proprie credenze nella religione cattolica con quelle nei ‘guaritori’. Probabilmente, penso, giochi un ruolo su come questo correre amok sia… in certi parti delle Filippine. |
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M: Quack doctors and faith-healers… |
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M: ‘Quack Doctors’ e ‘Faith-healers’… |
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G: They are more or less the same |
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G: Sono piu’ o meno la stessa cosa. |
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M: Yes…I mean…these are the principal people that treat amok in the Philippines…are they? |
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M: Si… voglio dire… queste sono le persone principali che curano l’amok nelle Filippine? |
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G: Yes, these quack or faith-healers, quack obviously is a very westernized version of faith-healers but since I was going in the Philippines it was a fairly popular word you know we called them quack doctors one I think that is relevant to this is it was a favourite quack or faith-healers….somebody is afflicted by such kind of illness called amok they usually say that they probably disturb or pass some sort of area or region in which these…what do you call it…little people or some you know some sort of people from the underworld live and they’ve been disturbed and so they are probably put a curse them that made them be able run amok |
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G: Si’, questi ‘Quack’ o ‘Faith Healers’, Quack ovviamente e’ una versione molto occidentale del ‘Faith Healer’ ma dacche’ andavo nelle Filippine questa era una parola abbastanza comune, sai, li chiamavamo ‘quack doctors’ (...) .…qualcuno afflitto da questo tipo di malattia chiamata amok, di solito dicono sia dovuto al disturbo o passaggio in qualche area o regione dove… come si dice… piccoli personaggi (tipo lillipuziani) o qualche sorta di individui provenienti dal mondo degli inferi sono stati disturbati e cosi’ probabilmente hanno mandato loro una maledizione che li ha fatti correre amok |
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M: …you talked about small people? |
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G: Yes, it’s…you know…when you go into a fear you see sometimes a small hill I think now I know that it’s a hill usually created by, you know, by ants or termites or something but these quack doctors they usually all people usually think it’s some sort of place where these small people usually live and when it is disturbed they usually put a curse on the person who usually…who caused the disturbance |
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G: Si’, e… sai… quando ti viene paura a volte si vede una piccola collina, penso ora so che e’ una collina generalmente creata da, sai, formiche o termiti o qualcosa del genere ma questi ‘Quack Doctors’...tutte le persone... pensano che sia il luogo dove vivono queste piccole persone e una volta disturbate, solitamente mandano una maledizione alla persona che ha causato il disturbo. |
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M: So how do the faith-healers or quack doctors cure amok in their way because…I mean…because as long as I’m concerned their common interpretation is that maybe people running amok they disturbed these small people and so how can they go back to normal…basically…what should they do? |
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M: Ma come fanno questi ‘Faith Healers’ o ‘Qack Doctors’ a curare l’amok perche’… voglio dire… magari la loro interpretazione e’ che la gente corra amok per il disturbo delle piccole persone, ma come possono tornare alla normalita’… in pratica… cosa dovrebbero fare? |
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G: Actually I’ve never seen…in the same person I’ve seen it once in one person and as far as I remember they only…it only happened once to one particular person and as far as treatment or healing is concerned I think it was just a spontaneous remission you know they’re usually seen by these faith-healers and they mumble a few things, some sort of prayers and things like that or prayers to these small people and it is usually sometimes coupled with Christian praying if you like and that’s it, it’s probably just what you call it the interference of these faith-healers that actually cause the treatment of these particular people afflicted by amok, it’s nothing special….they don’t actually give them anything…..in fact I think if I can just say I remember once when somebody was brought to this particular faith-healer it is a normal practice these people usually start screaming once they’re brought to these faith-healers, they just scream on top of their head and they claim that they start talking in different tongues which is not usually their natural tongue, it’s usually a completely different dialect, totally different language and usually it is not and the faith-healers always claim that it is not him who is talking but the actual person who actually put a curse on that person and so you know he’s behaving the language is actually unknown to that person but it is the person who actually put a curse on him that is actually talking through his mouth |
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G: Io non ho mai visto… nella stessa persona l’ho visto una volta sola, in una persona e da cio’ che mi ricordo…e’ solo capitato ad una persona in particolare e per quanto riguarda la cura, penso sia giusto una remissione spontanea, sai, si fanno vedere dal ‘guaritore’ che borbotta qualcosa, qualche tipo di preghiera, o preghiere per le piccole persone, oppure a volte e’ accompagnato da preghiere cristiane, e questo e’ quanto, e’ probabilmente solo l’interferenza dei ‘guaritori’ che effettivamente costituisce il trattamento di queste particolari persone afflitte dall’amok, non e’ niente di speciale… non gli somministrano nulla… infatti penso di ricordarmi di un episodio quando una persona fu portata da questo ‘guaritore’, ed e’ molto comune che accada che queste persone incomincino a gridare una volta portati dal ‘Faith Healer’, gridano fortissimo e sostengono di parlare in diverse lingue – non nella loro lingua madre, normalmente e’ un dialetto completamente diverso, una lingua totalmente diversa. I ‘guaritori’ sostengono sempre che non siano loro a parlare ma la persona che ha fatto il malocchio su quella determinata persona...sai...parla un linguaggio sconosciuto a quella persona ma e’ l’ individuo che ha mandato la maledizione che parla per via della bocca della tale persona . |
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M: So a part for quack doctors and faith-healers are there other ways of treating amok…I mean…also from a legal point of view…because these people they start killing other people…I mean…how does the law behave relating to amok? |
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M: Allora, a parte i ‘Quack Doctors’ e i ‘Faith Healers’, ci sono altri modi di curare l’amok… voglio dire… anche da un punto di vista legale… perche’ questa gente uccide altre persone… come si comporta la legge nei riguardi dell’amok? |
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G: Well as far as I remember I’ve never known anyone taken to court for this purpose in the first place people who were affected or hurt ….people running amok came from very poor families and obviously they couldn’t afford a lawyer, as far as compensation is concerned I think the one who caused some harm they usually some re-payed with…you know…anything, any small thing, like probably doing them a favour or giving them something like rice or something just to compensate the harm they’ve given to these people, but I’ve never really known any sort of legality involved in it |
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G: Per quanto mi ricordi, non ho mai saputo che qualcuno fosse stato portato in tribunale per tali ragioni. In primo luogo, le persone colpite o ferite… la gente che corre amok proviene da famiglie molto povere e ovviamente non possono permettersi un avvocato, per quanto riguarda il risarcimento, penso che colui che ha causato il danno, paghi con… sai… con qualsiasi cosa, anche piccola, come favori o offrendo del riso o qualcosa del genere, giusto per risarcire i danni causati a questa gente, ma non sono mai venuto a conoscenza di alcun tipo di causa legale coinvolta. |
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M: Well…I mean…even if these people killed someone, the law is not involved, is it? |
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M: Bene… voglio dire… anche se queste persone uccidono qualcuno, la legge quindi non interviene? |
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G: …..the one incident where I’ve witnessed, the person who was actually harmed didn’t die and the one I think my brother witnessed didn’t die too and I haven’t really known a case in which you know a person died from somebody running amok, although obviously there have been cases in the Philippines where people have been killed by people running amok but as far as I’m concerned I’ve not seen anyone who has been killed by people running amok |
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G:…nell’incidente che ho visto, la persona ferita non e’ morta, e in quello visto da mio fratello neanche, e non conosco direttamente casi dove una persona sia stata uccisa da qualcuno che correva amok, anche se ovviamente ce ne sono stati di casi nelle Filippine dove gente e’ stata uccisa da gente che correva amok, ma io non vi ho mai assistito in prima persona. |
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M: I mean…your impression is that it’s kind of accepted by the society that people can run amok when distressed or when they have family or kind of social severe problems? |
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M: mi spiego meglio… la tua impressone e’ che la societa’ accetti che la gente corra amok a seguito di afflizione, problemi familiari o severi problemi sociali? |
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G: It is not accepted like I see it’s not accepted like as seen as a natural thing to react to some problems but I can say that people are not really surprised in the way we probably see somebody going …here…back home they would just sort of accept it you know with something like “ah yes he had a lot of problems and he couldn’t take it anymore”, it’s not like as if he’s completely mad and he has to be put away and things like that but I think, you know, they see it as a natural reaction to his everyday problems although it’s nothing like as if it is the right thing to do. |
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G: Non e’ accettata come una cosa normale, come una reazione naturale a certi problemi, posso dire pero’ che la gente non si sorprende quando vediamo qualcuno andare… qui… li’ verrebbe accettato come “ah, si’, aveva tanti problemi e non ce l’ha fatta piu’”, non viene considerato come se fosse completamente pazzo con necessita’ di essere ricoverato, ma penso, sai, che lo vedano come una reazione naturale ai suoi problemi quotidiani sebbene non venga considerata come la cosa giusta da fare. |
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M: Yeah...I mean…are there other ways of reacting to distress that are considered more acceptable and less acceptable?
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M: Si’… intendo… sono contemplati altri modi di reagire alle difficolta’, che siano considerati piu’ o meno accettabili? |
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G: Well in the Philippines there is not (…) clinical depression you know when somebody is sort of considered mentally ill as you know just because he’s clinically depressed I don’t think they’ll see that as normal, I don’t think they can believe that somebody is capable of going to a mental hospital just because he’s depressed, they think people can become sad but not depressed and so people they probably just retire in their own, become isolative and become very quiet and there’s too much to take, they’ve probably gone amok, that’s my own belief. As far as you can talk to a lot of philippinos now and they will tell you that there is not existence of clinical depression back home, maybe because it is a natural continuation of clinical depression because nobody can really understand they’re actually clinically depressed and so because there is no help they just…we just be a bit too much and they run amok maybe shouting for help but I think our culture is such that people, no matter how stressful the life event is, people don’t simply get clinically depressed, they get sad but they can always put themselves together. |
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M: I wanted to know, I mean, a part for Clinical Depression which doesn’t seem to exist back home as you were saying…I don’t know…I mean…are there other forms of mental illness back home like schizophrenia, personality disorders…I mean how are they perceived and treated and how do they seem…I mean…do they have the same presentation or different way? |
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M: Volevo sapere, a parte la depressione clinica che non sembra esistere nelle Filippine come dicevi… ci sono altre forme di malattie mentali come la schizofrenia, i disturbi di personalita’… come sono percepiti e trattati, e come sono visti… intendo dire… hanno la stessa presentazione o e’ differente? |
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G: First of all in the Philippines at least during the time I was there people weren’t aware there were existence of pd, people who were suffering from pd they were considered like as if they have just been different…yes…nowdays probably during the old age when somebody is supposed to be mentally ill they will almost always suffering from epilepsy which is much more evident physically but somebody with pd I don’t think there has ever been a case where people with pd were considered mentally ill. They have been seen like as if they’ve been odd, in fact they’re usually seen as fairly normal, as far as the general public is concerned, as for schizophrenia most people they can’t really distinguish between what is schizophrenic and what is not but…different classifications of schizophrenia |
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G: Prima di tutto nelle Filippine, almeno mentre ci vivevo io, la gente non era al corrente dell’esistenza dei DP, i sofferenti di DP erano considerati come persone diverse… si’… oggigiorno...un tempo, quando si diceva che uno avesse una malattia mentale, quasi sempre si trattava di epilessia che e’ molto piu’ evidente fisicamente, ma qualcuno con DP...io non penso ci sia mai stato un caso dove le persone con DP siano state considerate malate mentali. Venivano viste come persone strane, in realta’ venivano anche viste come abbastanza normali dalla gente comune, per quanto riguarda la schizofrenia, la maggioranza della gente non sa distinguere tra cos’e’ e cosa non e’ schizofrenia....ma ci sono diverse classificazioni per la schizofrenia. |
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M: Greg you were saying that in Philippines, that is approximately as big as England, there are as long as you are concerned just a few psychiatric hospitals, maybe two… |
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G: In a place called Lusan, if my memory tells me right as big as England, there are only 2 big psychiatric hospitals and, as far as I know, I’ve never known anyone admitted into these psychiatric hospitals suffering from personality disorders and I don’t think there’s one now. I know somebody who, when I went home about 18 years ago, was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. This particular person wasn’t even admitted into one of these hospitals, in fact he was just given some sort of prescriptions and he was expected to live normally like any other philippinos. |
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G: In un posto chiamato Lusan, se la mia memoria non m’inganna, che e’ grande quanto l’Inghilterra, ci sono solo due grossi ospedali psichiatrici e da quanto ne so io, non ho mai saputo di qualcuno ammesso per DP. Io conosco qualcuno che, quando tornai a casa circa 18 anni fa, soffriva di schizofrenia paranoide. Questa persona non e’ stata ricoverata in nessuno di questi ospedali, infatti gli sono stati prescritti dei farmaci e ci si aspettava che vivesse normalmente come qualsiasi altro Filippino. |
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M: Is there in Philippines…like…a classification of mental disorders as long as you’re concerned, like DSM-IV or ICD-10, I mean, what kind of parameters do they use to classify a person as mentally ill or to detain a person in hospital…let’s say? |
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M: Nelle Filippine esiste… come… una classificazione dei disturbi mentali, come il DSM-IV o l’ICD-10, voglio dire, che parametri vengono usati per classificare una persona come malato mentale, o per ricoverarlo in ospedale… diciamo? |
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G: Obviously if you are a psychiatrist, a qualified psychiatrist, you’re a psychiatrist everywhere, obviously psychiatrists will use the same sort of criteria from the way they diagnose the patients back home, it’s just the way the general public perceive a particular person as being mentally ill, does it …admission in a psychiatric hospital, in here we hear a lot of people suffering from pd, pure pd with no schizophrenic disorders or likewise been admitted into hospitals many times over, but back home I’ve never seen any case of pd having been admitted to a psychiatric hospital, like I said people will usually get admitted when there’s usually very…an evident, what do you call it, a tangible evidence as far as from the patient behaviour, to make him liable for admission, that’s one reason why people suffering from epilepsy usually find their way through a psychiatric hospital. |
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G: Certo se sei psichiatra, uno psichiatra qualificato, sarai psichiatra ovunque, ovviamente uno psichiatra usera’ gli stessi criteri di diagnosi che si usano nelle Filippine, ma e’ il modo con cui la gente comune percepisce una persona come malato mentale… ricoverare in ospedali psichiatrici, qua (GB) sentiamo di tante persone sofferenti di DP, DP puro, senza problemi schizofrenici, o simili, ammessi in ospedali psichiatrici, ma nelle Filippine non ho mai visto nessun caso di ricovero per DP, come ho detto, la gente viene ricoverata quando normalmente c’e’… un’evidenza, come si dice, un’evidenza tangibile circa il comportamento del paziente tale da renderlo suscettibile al ricovero. Questa e’ una delle ragioni per le quali i sofferenti di epilessia di solito trovano la loro strada per essere ammessi negli ospedali psichiatrici. |
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M: I mean…are people suffering from amok being admitted to a psychiatric hospital every now and then because of their behaviour, because, as you were saying, in Philippines people they go to a psychiatric hospital when the illness is really tangible, when there are clear signs of illness and amok is quite a violent outburst of symptoms sometimes, so as long as you’re concerned, has there been people admitted to a psychiatric hospital because they were running amok? |
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M: Intendo dire… vengono i sofferenti di amok mai ricoverati in ospedali psichiatrici di tanto in tanto a causa dei loro comportamenti?... perche’, come dicevi, nelle Filippine, ricoverano gente in ospedale psichiatrico quando la malattia e’ tangibile, quando ci sono chiari segni di malattia e amok e’ uno scoppio violento di sintomi a volte quindi, in questi casi, vengono ricoverati negli ospedali psichiatrici per aver corso amok? |
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G: I cannot really remember very well, you know, whether somebody who suffered from amok, you know, has been admitted into a psychiatric hospital, the two cases I’ve known they were just...incarcerated in their own homes but their own family, probably one or two members of the family looking after him very very closely, but I’ve never known anyone who was suffering from amok who actually went to a psychiatric hospital. If anything, they would probably just I think I would expect somebody running amok like that because it’s not considered a mental illness, they probably go to prison rather than go to a psychiatric hospital. |
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G: Non ricordo bene, sai, se un sofferente di amok, sia stato mai ricoverato in ospedale psichiatrico, i due casi che ho conosciuto furono…rinchiusi nelle loro case e le loro famiglie, probabilmente uno o due membri della famiglia, si presero cura di loro in modo stretto, ma non ho mai conosciuto nessun sofferente di amok che sia stato ricoverato in un ospedale psichiatrico. Penso che, siccome amok non e’ considerata una malattia mentale, essi probabilmente vanno in prigione piuttosto che venire ricoverati in ospedali psichiatrici. |
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M: Do you think Greg that amok could be viewed as a kind of suicide, as a way of committing suicide, because for example in some of the papers that I read…for example according to the malay culture in muslim malays suicide is a crime kind of thing so maybe it could be viewed as a way of committing suicide…an acceptable way of committing suicide. What do you think? Because sometimes at the end of the violent outburst towards other people these Pengamok they commit suicide at the end, sometimes? |
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M: Greg, pensi che l’amok potrebbe essere visto come un tipo di suicidio, come un modo per suicidarsi, perche’, per esempio, in certi articoli che ho letto… per esempio, secondo la cultura malesiana tra i musulmani malesiani il suicidio e’ considerato un crimine, allora potrebbe essere considerato come un modalita’ per suicidarsi… un modo accettabile per commettere il suicidio. Cosa ne pensi? Perche’ a volte alla fine della violenza verso gli altri, a volte questi Pengamok si suicidano. |
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G: Maybe…but as far as I know these people we don’t perceive as if they were committing suicide, like I said they were just perceived like you know like as if they were, they were just reacting to some stressful event in their life, although from a question of a catholic point of view most of the people who were suffering from amok they were sort of…majority of them belong to the catholic religion they would most probably would consider committing suicide as a sin but I don’t see any sort of relationship between suicide and running amok, they aren’t sort of the same thing. |
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G: Forse… ma per come lo vediamo noi, non lo percepiamo come un suicidio, come avevo detto, venivano visti come, sai, come se stessero reagendo ad eventi stressanti della loro vita, sebbene da un punto di vista cattolico, la maggior parte di sofferenti d’amok erano… la maggior parte apparteneva alla religione cattolica e sicuramente considerebbero il suicidio come un peccato, ma io non vedo alcuna relazione tra suicidio e correre l’amok, non sono la stessa cosa. |
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M: Do you think Greg that amok is a culture bound syndrome and what do you think about the British and American cases that have been considered amok from a westernized point of view like the Hungerford massacre in Britain where like a 27 yo person killed 15 people without a previous past psychiatric history…do you think amok is culture bound…related to culture? |
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M: Greg, tu pensi che l’amok sia una Sindrome legata alla Cultura e cosa ne pensi dei casi inglesi e americani considerati come amok da un punto di vista occidentale come il massacro di Hungerford in Inghilterra dove un ventisettenne uccise quindici persone senza avere avuto problemi psichiatrici passati… pensi che l’amok sia legato alla cultura… relazionato alla cultura? |
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G: It’s really difficult to make a relationship there, first of all I think for instance the background of people going and killing spree, for instance educational and financial background is completely different from the one people who was supposedly you know similarly in a way you know suffering from some sort of amok only in a very different you know way culturally, back home a people suffering from amok usually came from a very poor family, usually unemployed and usually isolative, very sensitive people, as far as I know people who go killing spree in the west they don’t have any reason to have any sort of financial difficulties in fact I think some of them you know they’re highly educated and most of them also their level of intelligence is probably more than average, more than anything else, whereas people who as far as I can remember people who suffered from amok educationally they had poor background, they’re very simple, very superstitious and very sensitive, very isolative maybe that’s the only probably relationship they have you know people who go killing spree in the west they usually are very isolative people |
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G: E’ molto difficile fare questi paragoni, prima di tutto penso, per esempio, che il background di gente che uccide altra gente a strage, per esempio il contesto educativo e finanziario siano completamente diversi da quelli che magari soffrono di amok nel mio paese. Nelle Filippine i sofferenti di amok normalmente provengono da famiglie molto povere, senza lavoro, e isolate, gente molto sensibile, da quanto ne so io, gente che uccide a strage nell’occidente non hanno difficolta’ finanziarie, difatti penso che alcuni abbiano un’educazione ed un livello d’intelligenza piu’ alto della media, invece da quanto ricordo, i sofferenti d’amok sono poveri e senza educazione, sono molto semplici, molto superstiziosi e sensibili, molto isolati, forse e’ questa l’unica relazione che c’e’, sai, con la gente che uccide a strage nell’occidente: sono generalmente molto distaccati e isolati. |
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M: You make a link I mean the only link or thing in common that they could have is having maybe the same kind of premorbid personality, maybe a bit isolative and withdrawn… |
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M: Tu fai un collegamento, intendo dire, l’unico collegamento o cosa in comune che potrebbero avere e’ forse lo stesso tipo di personalita’ premorbosa, forse un po’ isolati e distaccati.... |
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G: Yes |
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G: Si. |
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M: And what about the traditional weapons they use, do you think it’s an important issue…I mean…the kind of weapon they use? |
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M: E cosa ne dici circa l’impiego di armi tradizionali, pensi sia qualcosa d’importante… intendo… il tipo di arma che viene utilizzato? |
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G: Yes I think the kind of weapon they use is because they usually use some machete, it’s a lot of time resembles a big knife with his sometimes useful cutting sugar canes, so quite a big knife and I think again you have to take into consideration you know between the two societies…in the west it’s more advanced society and the most little weapons that you could think of it’s a gun and of course they wouldn’t use a knife here because for simple reason, maybe because it’s not little enough, back home a gun is not always available and the machete is considered as the most being little and so a more readily available and so he chooses weapon to actually perpetrate such illness |
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G: Si’, penso il tipo di arma usato sia normalmente un machete, di solito assomiglia ad un grande coltello usato per tagliare la canna da zuchero, un coltello molto grosso e penso che vada preso in considerazione confrontando le due societa’… l’occidente e’ piu avanzato e le armi piu’ piccole penso siano le pistole, e certo, non userebbero un coltello qui, per questa semplice ragione, perche’ non e’ cosi’ piccolo. Nelle Filippine le pistole non sono sempre molto accessibili, e il machete e’ considerato come l’arma piu’ piccola e piu’ facile da trovare e allora scelgono quest’arma per causare i danni. |
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M: Yes, you mentioned some social factors in the causality of amok before, like having a very poor background both economically and culturally and…I mean…how important is the migration as a social factor in amok…because I read in some papers that these people they migrate from the countryside to a big town kind of thing I mean how important do you think is the migration as a factor for amok? |
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M: Si’... tu avevi menzionato fattori sociali nella genesi dell’amok, come un ambiente di poverta’ economico e culturale e… intendo dire… che importanza ha la migrazione tra i fattori sociali riguardo l’amok…perche’ ho letto articoli su persone che si spostano dalla campagna alla citta’, che importanza pensi che abbia questa migrazione come fattore per l’amok? |
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G: Marta I’m not rally aware about the significance of migration playing some sort of major role in the incidence and prevalence of amok because I’ve never known anyone who actually migrated from one area to another and suddenly started running amok, as far as I’m concerned they were indigenous to the place and have been living in the place for quite sometime before they actually run amok. |
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G: Marta, non sono molto al corrente del significato della migrazione come fattore sull’incidenza e prevalenza dell’amok perche non ho mai conosciuto persone che siano emigrate da un posto all’altro e di colpo hanno corso amok, da quanto ne so io erano indigeni del posto dove vivevano, e per tanto tempo prima di correre amok. |
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M: There is another paper I read that was speaking about epidemicity of amok. What do you think about it? Like for example in different periods there have been different prevalence of amok. Do you think there is an epidemicity of amok…and it appeared also that amok has declined nowdays…what do you think? |
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M: Un altro articolo che ho letto parlava del carattere epidemico dell’amok. Tu cosa ne pensi? Per esempio, in diversi periodi ci sono state diverse prevalenze di amok. Pensi che l’amok sia epidemico… e pare che l’amok sia in discesa oggi… cosa ne pensi? |
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G: Yes in fact I haven’t actually learned a case of amok lately although when I was back home the incidence and the prevalence there was quite widely known and I learned a single case for at least the town I came from, although the case my brother told me about 2 weeks ago that would have been fairly recent, maybe as far as a few months back, because I didn’t actually asked him when did it happen you know I asked him how did it happen and the background of this person and so I didn’t actually asked him but because he had just lived in the place for few years I would presume that he would have been recent…a few months back. |
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G: Si’, infatti ultimamente non ho saputo di casi di amok, comunque quando ero nelle Filippine l’incidenza e prevalenza....era ampiamente molto conosciuta ed io ho conosciuto almeno un caso nel mio paese. Comunque mio fratello mi racconto’ di un caso due settimane fa che sarebbe avvenuto di recente, forse solo qualche mese fa. Siccome non ho chiesto quando sia successo, sai, ho chiesto le modalita’ e il background di quella persona, ma siccome lui (mio fratello) e’ li’ da solo pochi anni, presumo che sia successo di recente… qualche mese fa. |
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M: Why do you think there haven’t been female cases of amok?
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M: Perche’ pensi non ci siano stati casi d’amok nelle donne? |
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G: Yes that’s a very interesting question, I’ve never known a female person who suffered from amok maybe because in the east the father usually takes the main responsibility and the burden of the problems of the family. This is I think in a way the major contributor to why such person gets affected by amok because they feel they have much more problems, although I think in terms of domestic work the woman does probably more than the man but at the end of the day, the day to day existence and the day to day living or the whole family depends on the job or the work of the man and if he cannot if he doesn’t have a good enough job to actually get through the day as far as sort of …..then probably that will be some major problems. That’s probably the reason why you know I haven’t known of female afflicted patients of amok. From the society where I come from it’s a very basically male society, very chauvinistic society you know women are not expected to go to work, females are expected to do the cooking, looking after the kids and things like that, the men usually are expected to do the job you know…..that’s probably how it can be differentiated as far as prevalence and incidence in gender distribution if you like. |
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G: Si’, e’ una domanda molto interessante, io non ho mai saputo di nessuna donna che abbia sofferto l’amok, forse perche’ in oriente e’ normalmente il padre che si prende la responsabilita’ e il carico della famiglia. Penso questa sia la ragione principale del perche’ tali persone si ammalano di amok, perche si sentono d’avere piu’ problemi, anche se penso che in termini di lavoro domestico la donna fa piu’ dell’uomo ma alla fine l’esistenza quotidiana dell’intera famiglia dipende dal lavoro dell’uomo, e se lui dovesse avere un lavoro non sufficentemente buono per mantenersi giorno dopo giorno… probabilmente ci sarebbero dei problemi. Questa e’ probabilmente la ragione per la quale non conosco casi d’amok nelle donne. La societa’ da dove provengo e’ molto maschilista, molto sciovinista, sai, non ci si aspetta che le donne vadano a lavorare ma devono cucinare, badare ai bambini, cose del genere… e’ cosi che si puo’ spiegare la differenza nella prevalenza e incidenza nella distribuzione tra i due sessi. |
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M: Do you believe in organic causes for amok like malaria, alcohol, opium…as causes for amok, because we spoke about some kind of social causes for it or like triggers for it but some papers they speak about organic and biological causes for it. What do you think? |
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M: Tu credi in cause organiche per l’amok come la malaria, l’alcool, l’oppio… come cause per l’amok, perche’ abbiamo parlato di cause sociali come triggers, ma alcuni articoli parlano di cause organiche o biologiche. Cosa ne pensi? |
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G: Personally I don’t think there’s an organic cause or biological cause to the incidence or prevalence of amok, I think the major is basically psychological, obviously I don’t have any evidence to prove that but from what I gather, if there has been sort of organic there wouldn’t have been a spontaneous remission from these people…if organic, I would have expected it to last a lot longer and it would have been repeated at least once more if it was organic because it is a site where you know people usually don’t believe in clinical depression like I said and people who suffer from clinical depression they were just considered sad you know; similarly people suffering from amok they will put themselves together because they were not perceived like if they had some sort of physical disease or anything you know it just sort of having some family problems, domestic problems or any psychological problem you can name but I don’t think it is organic. If it was organic personally I think the person would not have had a spontaneous remission, secondly I think if it was organic I think the incident will probably be repeated at least once more. |
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G: Personalmente non credo ci siano cause organiche o biologiche nell’incidenza o prevalenza dell’amok. Io penso la ragione principale sia essenzialmente psicologica, ovviamente non ho evidenze per provare cio’ ma da quanto credo, se ci fosse qualche tipo di causa organica non ci sarebbe stata una remissione spontanea da parte di questa gente… se, organica, mi sarei aspettato che durasse molto piu’ a lungo e che fosse stato ripetuto almeno una seconda volta se fosse stato organico, siccome e’ un posto, come ti ho cennato prima, dove la gente non crede nella depressione clinica, e quelli che ne soffrono vengono considerati tristi, sai, allo stesso modo i sofferenti di amok si rimettono a posto perche’ non sono considerati come se avessero una malattia fisica, sai, sono visti come persone con problemi familiari, domestici, o psicologici, ma non penso proprio sia organico. Se fosse organico, personalmente penso che la persona non avrebbe una remissione spontanea, secondariamente penso che se fosse organica l’incidente si ripeterebbe ancora una volta. |
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M: Do you recognize Greg the so called 3 phases of amok…I mean…amok has been described as an illness in the western perspective with 3 main phases: a first phase of brooding and depression often following a loss, let’s say the death of an important person, then there’s the phase of paroxysmal homicide where the Pengamok kills people around him and sometimes himself at the end and then there’s a phase of amnesia where the person doesn’t remember anything |
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M: Greg, lei riconosce le tre fasi dell’ amok… intendo dire… l’amok viene descritto come una malattia nella prospettiva occidentale composta da tre fasi principali: una prima fase di incubazione e depressione generalmente subito dopo una perdita come la morte di una persona cara, poi c’e’ la fase dell’omicidio parossistico dove il Pengamok uccide persone attorno a lui e a volte alla fine anche se stesso, e poi c’e’ la fase di amnesia dove la persona dimentica tutto. |
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G: Yes, now I remember very well about it yes more or less I think I believe in those 3 stages of amok, the 2 cases you know the one case I personally known and the one case my brother described to me you know …similar sort of stage where the person has been sort of isolative, wouldn’t talk to anyone and then when finally he runs amok afterwards he wouldn’t remember anything |
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G: Si’, adesso lo ricordo molto bene, si’, piu’ o meno credo in queste tre fasi di amok, i due casi, quello visto da me personalmente e quello descrittomi da mio fratello, sai… [avevano] fasi simili dove la persona diventa isolata, non parla con nessuno e poi dopo che corre amok, alla fine non ricorda piu’ niente. |
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M: Do you think that there could be amok cases in the west? |
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M: Pensi che si potrebbero verificare casi di amok nell’occidente? |
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G: I think the nearest thing you can think of resemblance of western amok is hysterical conversion where people they actually experience some sort of psychological problems like for instance somebody having difficulties in his exams would just probably start experiencing what do you call…a…………. I don’t know if I get the right word it’s usually a loss of feeling in one hand or they become completely mute, in a way I think that sort of reaction is similar to amok whereas in the Philippines it is usually outward, in the west it is usually internal. |
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G: Penso che la cosa che piu’ assomiglia all’amok occidentale e’ la conversione isterica dove la persona soffre di qualche tipo di problema psicologico come per esempio un soggetto con difficolta’ a dare esami che potrebbe incominciare a provare, come si dice…anestesia... non trovo la parola giusta, e’ la perdita di sensazione in una mano o diventare completamente muto, in un certo senso penso che questa reazione sia simile all’amok ma che nelle Filippine e’ normalmente esternalizzata, nell’occidente e’ internalizzata. |
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M: Do you think it is the same thing but with different ways of expressing it because of the different culture or do you think hysterical conversion is just the most similar thing but there’s nothing like amok in the west anyway? |
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M: Pensi sia la stessa cosa ma con diverse modalita’ di espressione a causa della cultura diversa, o pensi che la conversione isterica sia solo la cosa piu’ simile nell’occidente, seppur tuttavia non ci sia niente come l’amok? |
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G: Well I have...that there’s some similarities between the 2 because of the cultural differences, from the culture where I came from people are expected to show their true feelings if they are not happy they will show it, if they hate you they hate you, they show it so they….naturally but here people are usually expected to be so reserved and expected to behave completely different from the way they feel. You know you can…probably the best way to describe that is road drivers, driving in the Philippines one thing you will notice is they bleep their horn all the time you know they swear in front of you all the time if they are not happy the way you’ve been driving and follow them. Here usually if you make mistakes they don’t even bleep at you, you know, it’s afterwards they swear at you, you know, that’s probably the reason why there’s road rages here, it’s I think again probably road rages are forms of amok here, because people they’re just keeping …until they cannot cope with it anymore and they have road rages, back home I’ve never known anyone who suffered from road rages because they simply show it. |
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G: Bene io ho… ci sono similitudi tra le due a causa delle differenze culturali, dalla cultura da dove provengo ci si aspetta che la gente dimostri i propri sentimenti, se non sono contenti lo dimostrano, se ti odiano – ti odiano, lo dimostrano… naturalmente ma qui [GB] ci si aspetta che la gente sia riservata e che si comporti completamente diversamente da cio’ che sente. Sai… probabilmente il miglior modo di descriverlo e’ con i guidatori d’auto, guidando nelle Filippine si notera’ sempre che suonano il claxon tutto il tempo, sai ti dicono le parolacce apertamente in continuazione se non sono contenti di come stai guidando. Qui [GB] se sbagli non ti suonano neanche il claxon, sai, solo dopo imprecano, questa e’ probabilmente la ragione per la quale esiste la ‘furia da strada’ qui penso la ‘furia da strada’ probabilmente sia una forma di amok qui [GB], perche’ le persone si tengono tutto dentro… finche’ non ce la fanno piu’, e compiono le ‘furie da strada’ , nelle Filippine non ho mai conosciuto nessuno che soffrisse di ‘furia da strada’ perche’ semplicemente i sentimenti li dimostrano. |
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M: What do you think Greg will it happen in the future I mean with the globalization and you know with the fact that there’ll be less and less differencies in the mankind like…in the universe I mean…what do you think it will happen to amok, will it still exist or what do you think? |
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M: Greg, cosa pensi che succedera’ nel futuro, intendo, con la globalizzazione e sai con il fatto che ci saranno sempre meno differenze tra gli esseri umani… nell’universo intendo… cosa pensi accadra’ con l’amok, esistera’ ancora, cosa ne pensi? |
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G: I think it will probably just evolving into a different sort of illness…it’s just like…you can compare it to any person, somebody who migrate from one place to another you know actually a person a migrant will actually sort of behaving in the same way as do people around him and I think you know because nowdays because of globalization the world is getting smaller and smaller and behaviour will be more sort of more or less uniforme everywhere, the way people behave you know we watch television and things like that in fact children are beginning to copy the way people behave from here and viceversa, you know the world is just getting smaller so I think what people suffer from here and what people suffer from there seems actually to evolve in one thing because of globalization. |
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G: Penso che probabilmente evolvera’ verso un altro tipo di malattia… e’ come… lo puoi paragonare a qualsiasi persona, qualcuno che emigra da un posto ad un altro, sai, l’emigrante avra’ atteggiamenti simili alle persone che ha attorno, e penso che oggigiorno a causa della globalizzazione il pianeta diverra’ sempre piu’ piccolo ed il comportamento sara’ piu’ o meno uniforme ovunque, il modo in cui ci comportiamo, sai, guardiamo la TV, infatti i bambini incominciano a copiare i comportamenti di qua [GB] e viceversa, sai, il pianeta diventa sempre piu’ piccolo e penso che cio’ che le persone soffrono qui [GB] e quello che soffrono la’ [Filippine] sembra evolvere in una cosa sola a causa della globalizzazione. |
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M: So do you think amok will disappear in the future? |
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M: Allora tu pensi che l’amok scomparira’ nel futuro? |
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G: I think eventually amok will evolve into something much more acceptable. I’m almost sure that I think it will not be as explosive as it was, I think people will probably have more understanding about the poverty, about things around them, around the problems, because of globalization people will simply…whether you have a good educational background, because of globalization people will just be fairly knoledgeable about certain things and obviously because of that it will decrease the way they react negatively to certain problems…yes I think it will evolve into something different but I think it will be much less explosive. |
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G: Penso che l’amok alla fine evolvera’ in qualcosa di piu’ accettabile. Sono quasi sicuro che non sara’ esplosivo come una volta, penso che la gente probabilmente capira’ di piu’ la poverta’, cio’ che li circonda, i problemi, a causa della globalizzazione, la gente semplicemente… con un background di educazione o meno, data la globalizazione, la gente sara’ piu’ al corrente di certe problematiche e ovviamente si ridurranno le reazioni negative verso certi problemi… si’, penso che evolvera’ in qualcosa di diverso ma penso che sara’ molto meno esplosivo. |
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M: Thank you very much Greg. |
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M: Grazie mille Greg. |
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G: You’re welcome Marta. |
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G: Di niente Marta. |